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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 11:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Socialism:

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

As you can see in item one, it is a totally accurate description. It also would apply to universal healthcare and any other involuntary intervention by government into the free markets.

Unless you deny that those crooked CEO's in turn employed thousands of employees, cleaners, and service technicians to run their offices in addition to the employees who in turn comsumed goods and services from shoeshiners to grocery store cashiers and all the way down to garbage collections, public utilities etc.

The end result was an artificial reward for poor performance which is right in line with the fundamental aspect of imposing a higher percentage of a tax burden on the more successful and paying welfare recipients more for each child born. What happened to liberals and birth control? What is the big deal with rubbers? I won't even wank without them in fear of my hand getting pregnant. God might punish me with a 6th digit.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

>>>As you can see in item one, it is a totally accurate description. It also would apply to universal healthcare and any other involuntary intervention by government into the free markets. >>>

Your definition is useless, even if it is from a dictionary.

You'd do better to look at Wikipedia definition, and not one from a right wing economist.

You CANNOT characterize the bailout as socialist, since the bailout mainly benefits the few at the top. By your definition, there can be no non-socialist army and any other sort of government agency -- despite the fact that there ARE social goods!

Maybe you don't realize this but economic theory is severely weak at its foundations because of its assumptions. At the micro level there are no perfectly rational actors and there is no perfect information. It gets worse from there.

If you look at what the Nobel Prizes in Economics were really for in English, you'd be surprised how simple it is. If you want to see what economists are up against, check out this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Wikipedia is the word of god? Please it's the standard definition, trying to change the meanings of words is a bit strong of a tactic to prove a point!

I CAN categorize ANYTHING ANYWAY that I choose, we still have the constitution.

Oh darn, the opening lines from wikipedia:

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.

Why we would want a society that benefits eagles is beyond me. Ask steve winwood if his taxes are going up? What about grape ape and courageous cat?

You are losing it, and I don't mean just this argument. You are reaching for straws made of pixie dust and the debri is clouding your judgment.

More wisdom from wiki:

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other.

Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs

Economically, socialism denotes an economic system of state ownership and / or worker ownership of the means of production and distribution.

This is from the churchill that did not call the dead on 9/11 "little eichmans"

. . a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

Thanks for referring me to even better sources to support my argument!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Quoting Winston Churchill is one of the last refuges of scoundrels. I forgot the context of this; maybe it was during tea overlooking the slaughter of the Sudanese:

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."


And you've addressed nothing of the possibility of having a truly free market or that any form of government is really socialism.

Sometimes you right wingers seem as naive, or is it manipulative, as the Marxists.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2008-10-23 19:42:56

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